From:	DISNEYJOE7 -(DISNEYJOE7)	TO:	ALL

Date Posted:	2002-6-4 11:39:00
Message: Body:	Hello all, I asked a while back if anyone out there would like to add to in a open forum for all to use, A convertor so 4DTV works with TiVo/Replay in message 20905.1 But I had no takers ??? Is this because no one likes the fact the program is in assembly ?? I'm thinking this may be the problem, So I'm posting a channel layout so you can see it's easier then you may think, So here goes... Hope this helps. We all know that 4DTV controller is like this 1-M / 2-E / 3-T 4-C / 5-G / 6-S 7 / 8 / 9 / 0 So if you whated to get to HBO directly you would do this SAT KEY (wait about 1 second for table to show up) press key 5 (for G) press key 1 (for G1) now what for dish to move to G1 (easier for you then my way*) when there press 1 0 0 for all G1-100 So in assembly (FOR A PIC) is h'00' (used for channel flags if any / none in this case) h'51' (Pre SAT / Post SAT) h'01' (channel are entered a 3 digits with leading 0's if h'00' needed 100 is entered the first "0" is not used) So if you are using DISH Network channel mapping the above is for DISH channel 300 All channels are programmed from 100-999 (4 digit channel's are no operation / response displayed "Flashing channel info 3 times), As this makes the channel cross reference easier to do / update. Alone with the programming of the Core program in finding channel 300 or 291 or what ever. Channels with no referenced value is programmed as h'FF' h'FF' h'FF' h'FF' The FF is a flag (one of the bits that is) to do a No Operation Steve I hope this clears some things up. You can also have a whole new mapping for channels made up is up to you.. The core program is writing so it understands any DirecTv serial input commands does a cross reference to channel on 4DTV then Infrareds commands to receiver. Q's I'm here

Date Posted:

2002-6-4 11:39:00

Message:
Body:

Hello all,

I asked a while back if anyone out there would like to add to in a open forum for all to use, A convertor so 4DTV works with TiVo/Replay
in message 20905.1

But I had no takers ??? Is this because no one likes the fact the program is in assembly ?? I'm thinking this may be the problem, So I'm posting a channel layout so you can see it's easier then you may think, So here goes... Hope this helps.

We all know that 4DTV controller is like this
1-M / 2-E / 3-T
4-C / 5-G / 6-S
7 / 8 / 9
/ 0

So if you whated to get to HBO directly you would do this

SAT KEY (wait about 1 second for table to show up)

press key 5 (for G)

press key 1 (for G1)

now what for dish to move to G1 (easier for you then my way*)

when there press

for all G1-100

So in assembly (FOR A PIC)

is h'00' (used for channel flags if any / none in this case)
h'51' (Pre SAT / Post SAT)
h'01' (channel are entered a 3 digits with leading 0's if
h'00' needed 100 is entered the first "0" is not used)

So if you are using DISH Network channel mapping the above is for DISH channel 300

All channels are programmed from 100-999 (4 digit channel's are no operation / response displayed "Flashing channel info 3 times), As this makes the channel cross reference easier to do / update.
Alone with the programming of the Core program in finding channel 300 or 291 or what ever.

Channels with no referenced value is programmed as

h'FF'
h'FF'
h'FF'
h'FF'

The FF is a flag (one of the bits that is) to do a No Operation

Steve

I hope this clears some things up. You can also have a whole new mapping for channels made up is up to you.. The core program is writing so it understands any DirecTv serial input commands does a cross reference to channel on 4DTV then Infrareds commands to receiver.

Q's I'm here

From:	JONES215 -(JONES215)	TO:	DISNEYJOE7

Date Posted:	2002-6-4 12:32:00
Message: Body:	Thanks for your hard work towards getting the replay to work with our 4DTV. But with your work around you need to know how to write and use code Iam sorry DJoe7 But I have no ideal what to do I read your post 3 times. And a pig would land a 747 before I would even began to know how to make what you posted work. sorry. if you made a "black box" to hook up between my replay and 4DTV to make them work together I would buy one from you at any price. But if I have to code iam done for. thanks jones

Date Posted:

2002-6-4 12:32:00

Message:
Body:

Thanks for your hard work towards getting the replay to work with
our 4DTV.
But with your work around you need to know how to write and use code
Iam sorry DJoe7 But I have no ideal what to do I read your post 3 times. And a pig would land a 747 before I would even began to
know how to make what you posted work. sorry.

if you made a "black box" to hook up between my replay and 4DTV to make
them work together I would buy one from you at any price. But if I
have to code iam done for.

thanks

jones

From:	CYBERBYK -(CYBERBYK)	TO:	DISNEYJOE7

Date Posted:	2002-6-4 3:53:00
Message: Body:	I would be interested, but I dont have a tivo/replay yet to worry about it. I was kind of hoping someone would come out with a stand alone, similar to a vcr. Mike

From:	cliffcor -(cliffcor)	TO:	ALL

Date Posted:	2002-6-4 2:09:00
Message: Body:	>if you made a "black box" to hook up between my replay and 4DTV to make >them work together I would buy one from you at any price. Yep Me too. It's been a long time since I drove a soldering iron, but I'd buy a translator box in a heartbeat if it was even close to a good solution. I'd also pass the word on the AVS forum and elsewhere. Somewhat related, I've been writing myreplay.com for support for the 4dtv. Not control as yet, but just a choice of C-Band listings. I point out that we as a group are used to paying for video equipment and having 4dtv listings for Replay would make a good impression here. Drop them a note if you care to, couldn't hurt.

Date Posted:

2002-6-4 2:09:00

Message:
Body:

>if you made a "black box" to hook up between my replay and 4DTV to make
>them work together I would buy one from you at any price.

Yep Me too. It's been a long time since I drove a soldering iron, but I'd buy a translator box in a heartbeat if it was even close to a good solution. I'd also pass the word on the AVS forum and elsewhere.

Somewhat related, I've been writing myreplay.com for support for the 4dtv. Not control as yet, but just a choice of C-Band listings. I point out that we as a group are used to paying for video equipment and having 4dtv listings for Replay would make a good impression here. Drop them a note if you care to, couldn't hurt.

From:	JONES215 -(JONES215)	TO:	cliffcor

Date Posted:	2002-6-4 2:51:00
Message: Body:	Somewhat related, I've been writing myreplay.com for support for the 4dtv. Not control as yet, but just a choice of C-Band listings. I point out that we as a group are used to paying for video equipment and having 4dtv listings for Replay would make a good impression here. Drop them a note if you care to, couldn't hurt. myreplaytvsupport@replaytv.com HI there, Oh would that not be sweet ? I done this in the past. Put as of yet I have only got one reply from the new owner's of Replaytv/SB Which was a One size fits all form letter, which said nothing :) But that being said. If more people did drop them a note maybe they will see us C-band guys as a market of people that put their money where thier mouth is.

Date Posted:

2002-6-4 2:51:00

Message:
Body:

HI there,

Oh would that not be sweet ? I done this in the past. Put as of yet
I have only got one reply from the new owner's of Replaytv/SB Which
was a One size fits all form letter, which said nothing :)

But that being said. If more people did drop them a note maybe they
will see us C-band guys as a market of people that put their money where thier mouth is.

From:	cliffcor -(cliffcor)	TO:	JONES215

Date Posted:	2002-6-5 9:44:00
Message: Body:	>But that being said. If more people did drop them a note maybe they will see us C-band guys as a market of people that put their money where thier mouth is. That's the point I make, we are earlt adoptors of video tech, have income to spend, etc. I'm not asking for the moon to start, as the control of 4dtv is a bear, (change sat, then wait to land before channel, darn Moto for not allowing a small command buffer here), but the listings shouldn't be that big a deal. The're already part of the TNS listings, so all they need is to make them a choice on the sat setup. That will eliminate at least the manual recording, non-information on the replay list, and let me see what's on! Damn if the replaytv isn't a fun machine. Cheers!

Date Posted:

2002-6-5 9:44:00

Message:
Body:

>But that being said. If more people did drop them a note maybe they
will see us C-band guys as a market of people that put their money where thier mouth is.

That's the point I make, we are earlt adoptors of video tech, have income to spend, etc.

I'm not asking for the moon to start, as the control of 4dtv is a bear, (change sat, then wait to land before channel, darn Moto for not allowing a small command buffer here), but the listings shouldn't be that big a deal. The're already part of the TNS listings, so all they need is to make them a choice on the sat setup. That will eliminate at least the manual recording, non-information on the replay list, and let me see what's on!

Damn if the replaytv isn't a fun machine.

Cheers!

From:	ianken_ms@msn.com -(IANKEN)	TO:	cliffcor

Date Posted:	2002-6-5 12:28:00
Message: Body:	The really annoying thing here is that SonicBlue has a deal with mot to provide their DVR technology on Mot STBs. They are already working together. I wish we could get some trickle down goodies and get: 1- A firmware tweak to allow sat+channel without waiting for the dish. 2- Support in the Replay units for the 4D channel lineup and control of the unit. This is not trivial. They'd have to be smart about it: know when to change sats and when not to. 3- Ideally : support for using the data port on the back to control the 4D from the R4K. If possible a special cable that allwed both the replay and the HDD-200 to share the port. This assumes there's a low speed and a high speed data pin on the port.

Date Posted:

2002-6-5 12:28:00

Message:
Body:

The really annoying thing here is that SonicBlue has a deal with mot to provide their DVR technology on Mot STBs. They are already working together.

I wish we could get some trickle down goodies and get:

1- A firmware tweak to allow sat+channel without waiting for the dish.
2- Support in the Replay units for the 4D channel lineup and control of the unit. This is not trivial. They'd have to be smart about it: know when to change sats and when not to.
3- Ideally : support for using the data port on the back to control the 4D from the R4K. If possible a special cable that allwed both the replay and the HDD-200 to share the port. This assumes there's a low speed and a high speed data pin on the port.

From:	DISNEYJOE7 -(DISNEYJOE7)	TO:	ianken_ms@msn.com

Date Posted:	2002-6-5 3:24:00
Message: Body:	>>> The really annoying thing here is that SonicBlue has a deal with mot to provide their DVR technology on Mot STBs. They are already working together. <<< True, But sad. But the number of 4DTV to LSD is whats KILLING US, And I feel it's all MOT fault. >>> 1- A firmware tweak to allow sat+channel without waiting for the dish. <<< That would be sweet, But a work around can be done, Just a little timing here & there :-) >>> 2- Support in the Replay units for the 4D channel lineup and control of the unit. This is not trivial. They'd have to be smart about it: know when to change sats and when not to. <<< That is done, just a code to see if sat is the same or not, Also have code to if above is TRUE is channel the same, If so display "Channel Info" >>> 3- Ideally : support for using the data port on the back to control the 4D from the R4K. If possible a special cable that allwed both the replay and the HDD-200 to share the port. This assumes there's a low speed and a high speed data pin on the port. <<< Not in my life-time :-/

Date Posted:

2002-6-5 3:24:00

Message:
Body:

>>> The really annoying thing here is that SonicBlue has a deal with mot to provide their DVR technology on Mot STBs. They are already working together. <<<

True, But sad. But the number of 4DTV to LSD is whats KILLING US, And I feel it's all MOT fault.

>>> 1- A firmware tweak to allow sat+channel without waiting for the dish. <<<

That would be sweet, But a work around can be done, Just a little timing here & there :-)

>>> 2- Support in the Replay units for the 4D channel lineup and control of the unit. This is not trivial. They'd have to be smart about it: know when to change sats and when not to. <<<

That is done, just a code to see if sat is the same or not, Also have code to if above is TRUE is channel the same, If so display "Channel Info"

>>> 3- Ideally : support for using the data port on the back to control the 4D from the R4K. If possible a special cable that allwed both the replay and the HDD-200 to share the port. This assumes there's a low speed and a high speed data pin on the port. <<<

Not in my life-time :-/

From:	DISNEYJOE7 -(DISNEYJOE7)	TO:	JONES215

Date Posted:	2002-6-5 3:49:00
Message: Body:	Jones, I working on this, As a hobby.. Would like to share. This is all writen in assembly laungage if MIRCOCHIP PIC 16f877 to be exact. I would like to post program & channel database info. Trouble is that I made be the only one who works in "Assembly", I did this so it was small & Quick. I don't feel this is "READY for prime time" as I feel it needs this... A way to change "Channel Cross Reference" table on the fly, Done by serial input. That I think must be another PIC in the circuit, In return raising cost. Some greater understanding what "People" need ??? Some have needed a way so Replay/TiVo would see local channels by LSD and others by 4DTV. Ok thats not a big deal, But you need a video switcher in the circuit.... Also TiVo series II is S-Video in only 920 box is but RCA & S-Video based on the channel. So do we add an RCA to S-Video convertor ??? So what's is the need out there.... If anyone would like to built this, I will post ASM up & circuit details. If you like I can "Burn the PIC" for a small token say $12 plus shipping $4 ?? maybe.. I think this is not the way to go, With not addressing above troubles, Mainly channel mapping updating.. As a new program would have to be burnt every time. Also the programmer is like $100 to buy. Must learn channel mapping layout and what not..... Is this the way to go get it out there, Let the hobbies play with it ??

Date Posted:

2002-6-5 3:49:00

Message:
Body:

Jones,

I working on this, As a hobby.. Would like to share. This is all writen in assembly laungage if MIRCOCHIP PIC 16f877 to be exact. I would like to post program & channel database info. Trouble is that I made be the only one who works in "Assembly", I did this so it was small & Quick.

I don't feel this is "READY for prime time" as I feel it needs this...

A way to change "Channel Cross Reference" table on the fly, Done by serial input. That I think must be another PIC in the circuit, In return raising cost.

Some greater understanding what "People" need ???
Some have needed a way so Replay/TiVo would see local channels by LSD and others by 4DTV. Ok thats not a big deal, But you need a video switcher in the circuit....

Also TiVo series II is S-Video in only 920 box is but RCA & S-Video based on the channel. So do we add an RCA to S-Video convertor ???

So what's is the need out there....

If anyone would like to built this, I will post ASM up & circuit details. If you like I can "Burn the PIC" for a small token say $12 plus shipping $4 ?? maybe..

I think this is not the way to go, With not addressing above troubles, Mainly channel mapping updating.. As a new program would have to be burnt every time. Also the programmer is like $100 to buy. Must learn channel mapping layout and what not..... Is this the way to go get it out there, Let the hobbies play with it ??

From:	JONES215 -(JONES215)	TO:	DISNEYJOE7

Date Posted:	2002-6-5 4:20:00
Message: Body:	Joe, I know this is a hobby for you. I was just letting you know if you ever get this to work.I think you have a money maker on your hands. Anyone out there like to jump in on this. And help joe out. Be my guess. But the only way I can help is with money. :) The $100 programmer with ready to go software for channel Re-mapping I think the avg Bud-head can handy that as a end user.

Date Posted:

2002-6-5 4:20:00

Message:
Body:

Joe, I know this is a hobby for you. I was just letting you know if you
ever get this to work.I think you have a money maker on your hands.

Anyone out there like to jump in on this. And help joe out. Be my guess. But the only way I can help is with money. :)

The $100 programmer with ready to go software for channel Re-mapping

I think the avg Bud-head can handy that as a end user.

From:	Mark -(4DTV)	TO:	DISNEYJOE7

Date Posted:	2002-6-5 6:49:00
Message: Body:	I added this discussion to the FAQ regarding using TiVo & Replay with 4DTV.

From:	cliffcor -(cliffcor)	TO:	DISNEYJOE7

Date Posted:	2002-6-5 2:10:00
Message: Body:	First of all thanks for looking into this. I understand it's a work of love and challenge at this point. 1. I'd think a statup kit with the programmer, and your invention would be well received. 2. You are right that re-programming would be needed, but I'd think that a PC based utility could be cobbled up by several folks on the forum. Then what ever updating procedures could be done when needed. 3. I'd encourage all members who have (or even may want to have) a replaytv to do the following; write myreplaytvsupport@replaytv.com and ask as a starting point, that 4dtv listings be an option in the guide. Mention that you understand that 4dtv control is not currently available, but that there is no reason for the listings not to be. 4. Use what opportunities that everyone has to start the drumbeat to Motorola. Call in to support, ask reps when you have the chance. * For non Replaytv owners, I just have to say that having one of these, even with the current 4dtv kludges is GREAT. Completly transforms the way you watch TV. Best thing since pre-sliced bread.

Date Posted:

2002-6-5 2:10:00

Message:
Body:

First of all thanks for looking into this. I understand it's a work of love and challenge at this point.

1. I'd think a statup kit with the programmer, and your invention would be well received.

2. You are right that re-programming would be needed, but I'd think that a PC based utility could be cobbled up by several folks on the forum. Then what ever updating procedures could be done when needed.

3. I'd encourage all members who have (or even may want to have) a replaytv to do the following; write myreplaytvsupport@replaytv.com and ask as a starting point, that 4dtv listings be an option in the guide. Mention that you understand that 4dtv control is not currently available, but that there is no reason for the listings not to be.

4. Use what opportunities that everyone has to start the drumbeat to Motorola. Call in to support, ask reps when you have the chance.

* For non Replaytv owners, I just have to say that having one of these, even with the current 4dtv kludges is GREAT. Completly transforms the way you watch TV. Best thing since pre-sliced bread.